Mail rules being corrupted and dialog unusable

Question

Level 1

2 points

Mail rules being corrupted and dialog unusable

I am having issues with mail rules.

I am using them to organise my mail into folders. Most of the time this is done by checkig the contents of the From email address. The actions associated with these rules are generall to move the emil to the mailbox and then stop processing further. I now have quite a few rules for this and it was all going fine for a while.

I started to add a few more rules. The first thing I noticed was the the list box containing the actions wasnt rendering properly. The first action was visible, but then the second action partly (obscured) by the first action. The more I used the application, the worse this became to the point where you could not see the second or subsequent actions at all. The problem is reproducable. Quiting and restarting mail, or even re-booting, would not cause cause the problem to go away. I have noticed that the overlapping becomes worse as you edit a rule further down the list.

The next thing I noticed was that instead of, say, only having the defined 2 actions for a rule, all of a sudden, and somewhat randomly, three actions started to appear. For exmaple, instead of just "move" and "stop", I would now have "move", then "copy" and then "stop". Any ideas on how the extra "copy" magically appeared?

These two issues are not mutually exclusive. So if you try to edit a rule that now has three actions, you cant, because the second "copy" action is now obscured by the first action.

The whole mail "rules" feature becomes a fundamentally unusable and useless feature.

Is this just a bad set of bugs that I should pray for a quick fix for before my mail turns into a huge mess, or is there something I should be trying to overcome the problem. Clearly I'd rather not delete all my rules and spend another evening re-doing them - I just about had it perfect!

I'd appreciate any help.

MacBook Pro with Retina display, OS X Mountain Lion (10.8.4)

Posted on May 29, 2014 4:59 AM

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Answer 1

Jan 18, 2018 3:10 PM in response to LfromWI

I have not been using rules as I use iCloud mail and my rules are in the cloud. However, I decided it was time to start doing something with my Google mailbox. So I created a set of rules and now I see the problem described above. I remember seeing this before I moved to iCloud mail. I am also running MacOS High Sierra.

But I don't only get the corrupted window. I also get the wrong actions in my rules after quitting mail and starting it again. So there is also corruption wherever Apple Mail is saving the rules.

I think it is time to look at an alternative to Apple Mail. Unfortunately now that I have most of my mail in iCloud I am not sure how that will work.

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Answer 2

LfromWI

Level 1

9 points

Dec 11, 2017 12:49 PM in response to RustyL_AU

I have had this problem on and off for years. I do not even know when it began. It is now Dec 2017 with MacOS High Sierra, and the problem has re-emerged. Sometimes if I keep clicking in the cut off place where the editing should appear, I can edit the menu. Has anybody found a hack?

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Answer 3

Sep 16, 2017 1:27 AM in response to RustyL_AU

Sadly, there still is no fix to the 'disappearing actions window', but I have found a work-around until a fix is done.

When editing a rule, add a second action within the actions window. Then delete the first action, and the action window opens back up to it's correct size. Kind of cumbersome, but it's better than quitting and restarting the mail program every 10-15 times a rule is edited.

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Answer 4

RustyL_AU Author

Level 1

2 points

May 29, 2014 5:45 AM in response to RustyL_AU

I would like to correct an observation above. The problem of the actions visually overlapping in edit is not related to the position of the rule in the list - it is completely random.

The bottom line is that the rules implementation is completely flakey compared to what I have used in the past with Outlook on my Mac.

The solution ight be to comepletly ditch Apple mail. Sorry to say Apple software is just not robust at all in this area - I have lost confidence in this software and its screwing with my capacity to do my job.

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Answer 5

Esquared

Level 6

12,415 points

May 29, 2014 6:19 AM in response to RustyL_AU

I am seeing these rule actions disappear too. I filed a bug report with Apple in November 2013, but apparently this issue is somewhere at the bottom of the priority list.

But I'm a bit surprised that the issue survives a reboot in your case. Because in my experience the rendering of the actions is fine after that.

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Answer 6

Linc Davis

Level 10

209,739 points

May 29, 2014 8:31 AM in response to RustyL_AU

Please read this whole message before doing anything.

This procedure is a diagnostic test. It’s unlikely to solve your problem. Don’t be disappointed when you find that nothing has changed after you complete it.

The purpose of the test is to determine whether the problem is caused by third-party software that loads automatically at startup or login, by a peripheral device, by a font conflict, or by corruption of the file system or of certain system caches.

Disconnect all wired peripherals except those needed for the test, and remove all aftermarket expansion cards, if applicable. Start up in safe mode and log in to the account with the problem. You must hold down the shift key twice: once when you turn on the computer, and again when you log in.

Note: If FileVault is enabled, or if a firmware password is set, or if the startup volume is a Fusion Drive or a software RAID, you can’t do this. Ask for further instructions.

Safe mode is much slower to start up and run than normal, with limited graphics performance, and some things won’t work at all, including sound output and Wi-Fi on certain models. The next normal startup may also be somewhat slow.

The login screen appears even if you usually login automatically. You must know your login password in order to log in. If you’ve forgotten the password, you will need to reset it before you begin.

Test while in safe mode. Same problem?

After testing, restart as usual (not in safe mode) and verify that you still have the problem. Post the results of the test.

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Answer 7

Esquared

Level 6

12,415 points

May 29, 2014 11:43 AM in response to Linc Davis

Problem persists when booted in Safe Mode. (Which is – as I've mentioned a while ago – working fine on a FileVault enabled Mac...)

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Answer 8

Linc Davis

Level 10

209,739 points

May 29, 2014 11:49 AM in response to Esquared

I could torture you with more diagnostic steps, but I think it would be a waste of time. This is either a bug or perhaps the result of a hardware fault. I've seen at least one report of graphical artifacts only in Mail that were caused by a faulty logic board. In your place, I would take the machine to an Apple Store for testing.

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Answer 9

Esquared

Level 6

12,415 points

May 29, 2014 12:02 PM in response to Linc Davis

Nah, too much of a hassle: the nearest Apple Store is three hours away. And btw I would be very surprised if this is a hardware issue: no other graphical issues are apparent in Mail or elsewhere.

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Answer 10

RustyL_AU Author

Level 1

2 points

May 29, 2014 4:35 PM in response to Esquared

Thank you both for your contribution. Much appreciated.

I would tend to agree with Esquared. This looks a lot like a bug, or series of bugs. The question I asked myself was - why is this the only dialog with this problem? - I have not had any rendering issues like this elsewhere.

I have also tried unchecking active on a bunch of rules and rebooting in the vague hope that it might do something, but the same issues persists.

I also still have a whole bunch of rules with the mystery-additional action. And to cap it all off, I have noticed the rules engine is no longer processing incoming mail properly. Even when I highlight an email and click "Apply rule", it still sits in my Inbox.

It's clear to me that, regardless of how it happened, my rules are probably corrupted. Not sure how that is impacting the visual behaviour, I'd be only guessing. But I think I am going to need to delete all the rules and start again. I'll probably do a cold reboot after I remove all the rules, and before I add new ones, to ensure the rules base is as clean as possible.

I have only been a Mac user for about 18 months. I really don't have much in the way of third party software on my Mac. Only MSOffice and Adobe Lightroom. I originally bought it to do my photograpy work - it is far superior than the Windows platform for this kind of work. Far superior. As I used it more, my use of it extended... it is now my platform of choice - or was.

No doubt about it, Apple produces some nice "looking" software and devices. But I do get the impression they over-implement the KISS principle. It is simple - but to a fault sometimes. It seems very easy to break - It requires the user the understand a lot about the intended design, (the way they intended it to be used) rather than investing in design that makes it obvious through the user interface / scenarios. I like the simplicity of the Mac - it is my favourite device right now. But for the Mac to be an effective office (rather than just graphics) productivty platform they need to get with it and embrace powerful simplicity. Now there's something for the Apple software team to aspire to for the next 2 years. Seriously.

This is about the 5th time I have tried to do something I'd consider "everyday" on other platforms, and snap, it breaks. I have read many threads in the last 24 hours about all the issues with mail rules. You can invest a fair amount of time setting these things up - time that few of us have - and its not good when a buggy or poorly implemented feature fails to deliver functional basics - rendering aside.

I read with some interest Esquared's comments about this bug being at the bottom of the list as far as Apple is concerned. It wouldn't surprise me. I don't get the impression they feel any pain around software feature failure.

May be I should go to my Apple store so I can look in the eyes of someone wearing an Apple t-shirt and ask the question - How can you let a major mail feature out the door in this state?

Sorry for the vent and judgemental rant. Bad form on my part I suppose. But this is just so frustrating.

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Answer 11

RustyL_AU Author

Level 1

2 points

Jun 9, 2014 5:56 AM in response to RustyL_AU

Hi All.

I thought I'd finish off this sad and sorry tale.

I ended up deleting all my rules and starting again with a new approach - a few hours of lost time. My hope was that Apple Mail could handle a simplified scenario. The number of rules has been significantly reduced and I use SmartMailboxes more to help sift through my mail.

I rebooted my machine between deleting my last rule and starting with my first new rule. I guess I was hoping that any "garbage" might be flushed out in the process.

Things started well. However, the final outcome is no better.

1) The dialogue (form) for editing rules is still corrupt with actions #2, 3 etc being obsured by preceding actions. Sloppy.

2) Some rules still have a random (and unwanted) "Copy" action added to the action list. Buggy and corrupt.

3) And now I am finding that rules are not being processed at all (my inbox slowly cluttering up with emails I asked to be moved in rules). Fundamentally flawed.

Clearly this is a poorly conceived, designed or implemented piece of functionality. It does not do what it is advertised to do.

Competitive platforms work well.

This an Apple Fail. And a big one in the age of "big data", when customers really need this kind of functionality to work to keep their lives in order. Apple - Shame on the team that released this to the world in its current state - it seems to me (and others in the community that have complained of similar problems) that You have published a piece of junk. I cannot even begin to understand how any half-decent software engineering team would let something like this be released - what kind of testing was actually done on this? Any?

Am I frustrated. Yes. I paid for something that had a reasonable chance of working. This doesn't come close. Massive expectation gap.

So, next steps for me? After another 3 hours of setting up... I dont know. Pray that someone who knows what they are doing has been all over this feature set and has fixed it in the new OS X upgrade I guess. Wonder what our chances are?

/R

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Answer 12

Jul 1, 2014 10:23 AM in response to Linc Davis

This is not a hardware fault, a software conflict, or any other such problem. It is a bug, pure and simple. (In fact, it's a bug that the company I work for had to fix in our software!)

The bug can be seen with a clean copy of Mail.app on a clean OS X Mavericks system, and is much simpler than RustyL_AU's observation.

1: Create a rule (if necessary) containing 2 (or more) conditions in the "Perform the following actions:" section.

2: OK the rule editor sheet. (Apply to existing mail or not -- it doesn't matter.)

3: Edit the rule again.

** The "Perform the following actions" section of the dialog is a few pixels shorter than it was before. **

4: Click "Cancel" (or "OK" if you wish to deal with the "apply to existing..." dialog again)

5: Repeat steps 3-4 and notice that the "Perform the following actions" section of the dialog continues to shrink until only one line is visible.

That's all there is to it. It does not matter if you do this with a single rule or multiple rules; the dialog simply shrinks each time it is displayed.

Quitting/relaunching Mail.app resets the dialog to the proper size, but it will shrink again with each subsequent appearance of the rule editor sheet.

This bug does not exist in OS X 10.8.5.

I first observed this bug in OS X 10.9.3. (I have no machine with which to regression test 10.9-10.9.2.)

This bug is not fixed in OS X 10.9.4.

Other than that, my (56!) rules are working fine, which leads me to suspect that some of the other issues RustyL_AU observed are in fact caused by actions that are hidden from view because of the bug.

I've reported this to Apple, but based in Esquared's note, I'm not hopeful for a quick fix. That's a shame because as I mentioned above, we encountered this bug in our own software, and it took less than a man-day to fix the code. Surely Apple's got a man-day to spare for such a debilitating issue. 😉

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Answer 13

Shendl

Level 1

4 points

Apr 24, 2016 3:11 PM in response to Matthew Strange1

It is now April 2016, I have just bought my first Mac after using PC's for many decades. The problem persists. With the assistance of someone from AppleCare I created a picture of the diminishment of the actions section of the dialog box. I wonder/hope if it will get any attention. I also wonder if there are many people who use rules to the extent some of you have indicated....I do and spent some amount of hours today setting it up.

I have been using Eudora for a very long time. It is now defunct and it is interesting to see how the new email clients have less functionality for something as simple as the Send Later function, without it costing additional money for an add-on.

I don't actually know if anyone will even see this as the thread is a cold one.

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Answer 14

Adrian_S

Level 1

36 points

Sep 20, 2016 8:12 AM in response to RustyL_AU

You posted this on May 29 2014 (!!!) as a bug in mountain lion. The first bug still exists in El Capitan in september 2016. I have reported this bug already three times to apple feedback. As you say this bug -- the disappearing action button -- is completely reproducible, and it is deeply disappointing that Apple just does not seem to care.

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